Macross Cloning
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by Damon886 » Tue May 04, 2004 10:05 pm
I haven’t been able to find much information about the cloning period, can someone fill me in on it? Info about the dates, and specific info about clones would be nice.
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by apeman007 » Tue May 04, 2004 10:35 pm
Two places to start looking:
The Macross Compendium
The Joining Board
The Macross Compendium has what is official, in the timeline sections. However, the joining board has additional information for character generation and roleplaying aspects of cloning.
The Macross Compendium
The Joining Board
The Macross Compendium has what is official, in the timeline sections. However, the joining board has additional information for character generation and roleplaying aspects of cloning.
by inix88 » Tue May 04, 2004 10:45 pm
I think this is an appropriate place to discuss this, so here we go:
A couple of months ago, there was some suggestions for more player characters being clones. Here in a little bit, I will either be eligible for and additional character, or my current character will get killed, so, I was thinking that my next character should be a clone.
This raises some MRC specific questions.
Who would the cell donors be?
Only the surviors of SW 1, or would there be other cell storage facilities/resources?
What would be the approriate age for a cloned character in regard to the M15 campaign?
What would the childhood background of a cloned PC be? Are they adopted, raised in UN institutions, or what?
Please everybody, help me with the background for my cloned character. Either here, or in PM.
Thank you.
To Apeman 007: I know I saw some things about this on the joining board, but none of it was terribly specific. It mostly inspired these questions. I will delve into it again.
<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: inix88 on 2004-05-04 22:49 ]</font>
A couple of months ago, there was some suggestions for more player characters being clones. Here in a little bit, I will either be eligible for and additional character, or my current character will get killed, so, I was thinking that my next character should be a clone.
This raises some MRC specific questions.
Who would the cell donors be?
Only the surviors of SW 1, or would there be other cell storage facilities/resources?
What would be the approriate age for a cloned character in regard to the M15 campaign?
What would the childhood background of a cloned PC be? Are they adopted, raised in UN institutions, or what?
Please everybody, help me with the background for my cloned character. Either here, or in PM.
Thank you.
To Apeman 007: I know I saw some things about this on the joining board, but none of it was terribly specific. It mostly inspired these questions. I will delve into it again.
<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: inix88 on 2004-05-04 22:49 ]</font>
by apeman007 » Thu May 06, 2004 12:13 am
Here’s the link to the stuff on the JB re: being a clone: http://boards.macrossrpg.com/viewtopic. ... &forum=2&2
About the questions:
Using Overtechnology (Zentraedi/Protoculture cloning technology), the UNG was able to take the DNA (and not cell donors specifically) to mix and remix together thus creating a vast variation in the available gene pool to make clones from.
The original DNA donors would’ve been all of the surviving humans at the end of SWI. (Albeit, there is some discussion that the surviving members of the Anti-UN were excluded from the mass cloning operation.)
The JB has the answers re: appropriate ages and family/educational backgrounds for clones in the MRC.
The reason why it isn’t very specific is because this is a RPG where the players are supposed to use their imaginations as much as the GMs do. The skeletal information that the JB has is designed to give everyone a common starting point (the MRC Macross common denominator) and then the player goes from their making their own unique background and history. Who are we (in the JB) to dictate the creative aspects of you, the writers of the MRC?
About the questions:
Using Overtechnology (Zentraedi/Protoculture cloning technology), the UNG was able to take the DNA (and not cell donors specifically) to mix and remix together thus creating a vast variation in the available gene pool to make clones from.
The original DNA donors would’ve been all of the surviving humans at the end of SWI. (Albeit, there is some discussion that the surviving members of the Anti-UN were excluded from the mass cloning operation.)
The JB has the answers re: appropriate ages and family/educational backgrounds for clones in the MRC.
The reason why it isn’t very specific is because this is a RPG where the players are supposed to use their imaginations as much as the GMs do. The skeletal information that the JB has is designed to give everyone a common starting point (the MRC Macross common denominator) and then the player goes from their making their own unique background and history. Who are we (in the JB) to dictate the creative aspects of you, the writers of the MRC?
by inix88 » Thu May 06, 2004 2:48 am
That link is very very informative. I suppose if I were a little more detail oriented, I would have caught that on my own.
Regardless, thank you very much- I think I will be able to take it from there, if my ADD doesn't interfere...
In regard to donorship:
The original DNA donors would’ve been all of the surviving humans at the end of SWI. (Albeit, there is some discussion that the surviving members of the Anti-UN were excluded from the mass cloning operation.)
So, would the clones be engineered to have specific qualities, distilled from a large DNA library? If so, which qualities would UN geneticists deem approriate for a post-SW-1 World? Would they start building super-pilots, or super-farmers? Maybe super-hockey players...
Regardless, thank you very much- I think I will be able to take it from there, if my ADD doesn't interfere...
In regard to donorship:
The original DNA donors would’ve been all of the surviving humans at the end of SWI. (Albeit, there is some discussion that the surviving members of the Anti-UN were excluded from the mass cloning operation.)
So, would the clones be engineered to have specific qualities, distilled from a large DNA library? If so, which qualities would UN geneticists deem approriate for a post-SW-1 World? Would they start building super-pilots, or super-farmers? Maybe super-hockey players...
by Jester » Thu May 06, 2004 10:14 am
Cloning of humans ran from May 2010 to December 2030, and was stopped "Because of the increase in hereditary children's diseases due to the overuse of cloning, mass cloning is terminated." (Straight from the Macross Compendium. Thus a clone human would be anywhere from 20 to 40 years old, as we are currently in the 3rd to 4th week of January 2050.
Of course your character could always be the son or daughter of a clone.
For those of you that missed it the New Years Eve party held at the Macross-15 Park Plaza was fantastic <IMG SRC="/images/smiles/icon_wink.gif">
Of course your character could always be the son or daughter of a clone.
For those of you that missed it the New Years Eve party held at the Macross-15 Park Plaza was fantastic <IMG SRC="/images/smiles/icon_wink.gif">
by araruin » Thu May 06, 2004 5:34 pm
Here's another interesting question. Were we making cloned infants or full adults, like the Zentraedi. If I were a clone form the December 2030 batch, then I would be 19, but if I was hatched at a physical age of 20, then am I now physically 39?
by apeman007 » Thu May 06, 2004 7:22 pm
Araruin, the MRC answer is that the UNS was cloning full adults (akin to how the Zentraedi were produced.) The 'adult' clones were sent to educational facilities to give them the basics for social interaction and training for their role in society.
The offical Macross version? Hard to say... but given the huge number of colony fleets, colonies and crews for UNS starships, it'd be very difficult to provide people for all of those without having cloned 'adults'.
The offical Macross version? Hard to say... but given the huge number of colony fleets, colonies and crews for UNS starships, it'd be very difficult to provide people for all of those without having cloned 'adults'.
by Jester » Fri May 07, 2004 4:58 am
Full adult clones would seem to be the answer, as can you imagine dozens of clone children to every full grown normal human ??
Actually Araruin you'd still only be 19. But I suppose theoretically you'd look 19/20 years older than when you emerged from the cloning chamber. Although saying that most Zentraedi seem to age much slower, or maybe their body doesn't start aging until their physical age reaches the same time as their appearance age.
Its a biggie question that poses more questions and provides few answers Im afraid.
Actually Araruin you'd still only be 19. But I suppose theoretically you'd look 19/20 years older than when you emerged from the cloning chamber. Although saying that most Zentraedi seem to age much slower, or maybe their body doesn't start aging until their physical age reaches the same time as their appearance age.
Its a biggie question that poses more questions and provides few answers Im afraid.
by Nomad » Sat May 08, 2004 5:02 am
As usual I have a silly question to ask:
"Does medical technology in the Macross universe enables people to age slower than usual?"
Appart of the Zentraedi and the fact that we're speaking about Anime, how does it come that Maximilian Jenius seems so young in Macross-7 although he's supposed to be in his 50's? I remember that good old jack rabbit flying a VF-22 in a combat mission despite his theorical age. With genetic science being what it is after the encounter with the Zentraedi (I also remember some first aid product in Macross Plus that Myung used on Guld), could we assume that the most powefull people can benefit of rejunevation cures?
"Does medical technology in the Macross universe enables people to age slower than usual?"
Appart of the Zentraedi and the fact that we're speaking about Anime, how does it come that Maximilian Jenius seems so young in Macross-7 although he's supposed to be in his 50's? I remember that good old jack rabbit flying a VF-22 in a combat mission despite his theorical age. With genetic science being what it is after the encounter with the Zentraedi (I also remember some first aid product in Macross Plus that Myung used on Guld), could we assume that the most powefull people can benefit of rejunevation cures?
by MasumiX » Sat May 08, 2004 8:39 am
On the point of age and functioning. The western(north american/european) look on age is that you hit 40 and slide in the grave from there out (this is exagerated), but most people in first wold countries are fit and heathly and quite capable even at 50... in eastern countries its not unusual to slog on hard until the day you die.. I work with a fifty year old man who hefts 80 KG rocks with ease and a 70 year old man who could out dig anyone on these boards (including me and damn do I try!!!)
a man recently passed away here at the age of 72, he went to work that very morning. So I think that potting around in a comfy VF shouldn`t be a problem.. nor do I think that slow aging is neccesssary for clones, although the lower stress on the body due to hyper-aging process might add years to your adult life...
a man recently passed away here at the age of 72, he went to work that very morning. So I think that potting around in a comfy VF shouldn`t be a problem.. nor do I think that slow aging is neccesssary for clones, although the lower stress on the body due to hyper-aging process might add years to your adult life...
by Nomad » Sun May 09, 2004 3:37 am
A comfy VF?!
Our grand'pa will be taking G's without blacking out (and much more than on nowadays fighters), still having sharp reflexes and a good sight...I don't remember that lot of people in their 50's piloting a fighter jet.
This is why the Jenius "ad vitam eternam" question is another mistery to me (like the way he and Millia have to reproduce like a couple of rabbits), it must have to do with some secret mojo or else...
Our grand'pa will be taking G's without blacking out (and much more than on nowadays fighters), still having sharp reflexes and a good sight...I don't remember that lot of people in their 50's piloting a fighter jet.
This is why the Jenius "ad vitam eternam" question is another mistery to me (like the way he and Millia have to reproduce like a couple of rabbits), it must have to do with some secret mojo or else...
by Damon886 » Mon May 10, 2004 9:15 pm
Sorry it took so long for me to reply to my own topic, my home computer is now a nest for viruses so I can't use it.
Anywhoo, all that info was mucho mucho helpful, the question I most wanted answered was what age were people popped out at, and that got taken care of, so thank you.
As for the age thing, I'd assume that with basic medicine(not even alterations, just general health care) that the average person in Macross at 2050 should live to atleast 100. Now I figure there has to be an age where the human body will have to top out at, but seeing as well taken care of people now in 2004 can live easily to 100, that age should be the norm for people 46 years from now, instead of 80. As for the 50 year old in the jet, I think quite a few USAF pilots are still putting around pretty well at that age, and I think the man who first flew the YF-22 was in his late 40's.
Anywhoo, all that info was mucho mucho helpful, the question I most wanted answered was what age were people popped out at, and that got taken care of, so thank you.
As for the age thing, I'd assume that with basic medicine(not even alterations, just general health care) that the average person in Macross at 2050 should live to atleast 100. Now I figure there has to be an age where the human body will have to top out at, but seeing as well taken care of people now in 2004 can live easily to 100, that age should be the norm for people 46 years from now, instead of 80. As for the 50 year old in the jet, I think quite a few USAF pilots are still putting around pretty well at that age, and I think the man who first flew the YF-22 was in his late 40's.
"When you strike out with your fist, draw in your anger;
When you pull your fist back, release your anger."
-Okinowan Proverb
When you pull your fist back, release your anger."
-Okinowan Proverb
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by camk4evr » Mon Mar 20, 2006 5:31 pm
Sorry to resurrect this topic but I just found this after reading through the 'General Discussion' board and I had a thought on the topic of Max's age (which probably should be it's own topic really): How long have Max and Milia been 'chasing the speed of light'? I figured that since time slows as you approach the speed of light and that these ships have a cruising speed of .4-.6 lightspeed (and time passes slower in 'fold space' than in 'real space') that he could be physically younger than he is chronologically and that this could help explain (as well as advances in medical technology) why Max could still fly a VF while in his 50's.
.
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by araruin » Mon Mar 20, 2006 6:42 pm
Light speed isn't really a factor in Macross. The ship's don't accelerate to faster than light speeds. Normally, the ships travel at sublight speeds and then jump to new locations. Fold space is not a speed, but an alternate dimension of travel. There is a time discrepancy, but not in the way that we theorize for approaching light speed. In an episode of the original Macross series, Misa states that an hour in fold space is equal to a day in real space.
The real question is, how long do folds really take? In Macross Plus, we see Dyson sitting in his fighter waiting to get to Earth, so we know it isn't instantaneous as it appears to be in Macross7. It is my belief that they just edit out the lag time between jumps to get more story time. If the early episodes of Macross7 are an indication, though, colonization fleets don't spend alot of time in fold space. They mostly sit around in real space doing surveys with long range scanners, looking for a potentially habitable planet. Then they jump to a new position and start again.
The real question is, how long do folds really take? In Macross Plus, we see Dyson sitting in his fighter waiting to get to Earth, so we know it isn't instantaneous as it appears to be in Macross7. It is my belief that they just edit out the lag time between jumps to get more story time. If the early episodes of Macross7 are an indication, though, colonization fleets don't spend alot of time in fold space. They mostly sit around in real space doing surveys with long range scanners, looking for a potentially habitable planet. Then they jump to a new position and start again.
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by studiootaking » Tue Mar 21, 2006 2:31 am
Araruin is correct - colony fleets don't spend a lot of time in transit.
More info on the fold drive: http://macross.anime.net/story/encyclop ... index.html
The description there contradicts itself. The first states that a space fold occurs instantaneously (or near instantaneously.) The part that Misa Hayase said implies that it takes time to traverse super dimension space.
In other words: the creators of Macross are confusing us.
What is known for certain is that:
In Macross Plus the distance between Earth and Eden is 11.7 light years.
http://www.macrossroleplay.org/Sketchle ... ector1.htm
The fold booster used by VFs has a range of less than 20 light years.
http://www.macrossrpg.com/docs/index.ph ... ld_booster
Therefore, the scene in Macross Plus may have been lengthened because it bridges too episodes (the evil cliffhanger.) And the scene in Macross 7 where Diamond Force folds to where the Varuta had stolen the City Section was around 20 light years (they maxed out the fold boosters) occurs virtually instantly (I'll have to rewatch it, but as it occurs mid-episode it doesn't take very long.)
More info on the fold drive: http://macross.anime.net/story/encyclop ... index.html
The description there contradicts itself. The first states that a space fold occurs instantaneously (or near instantaneously.) The part that Misa Hayase said implies that it takes time to traverse super dimension space.
In other words: the creators of Macross are confusing us.
What is known for certain is that:
In Macross Plus the distance between Earth and Eden is 11.7 light years.
http://www.macrossroleplay.org/Sketchle ... ector1.htm
The fold booster used by VFs has a range of less than 20 light years.
http://www.macrossrpg.com/docs/index.ph ... ld_booster
Therefore, the scene in Macross Plus may have been lengthened because it bridges too episodes (the evil cliffhanger.) And the scene in Macross 7 where Diamond Force folds to where the Varuta had stolen the City Section was around 20 light years (they maxed out the fold boosters) occurs virtually instantly (I'll have to rewatch it, but as it occurs mid-episode it doesn't take very long.)
by MasumiX » Tue Mar 21, 2006 7:39 am
I had an older NPC who was in a position to have spent the better part of a third of his life in fold travel. In this case Fold travel time age quotient, I think I had this worked out to about 1115 minutes per year of "advanced" aging after averaging out some generic timelines. Since thats a couple hours off of being a full 24 hour day, I just rounded it out to one day. So, after 30 years of near constant folding accoss the near unisverse, the character was a month older than everyone else.
Smoking cigarettes will have the same amount of detrimental affect on your body in just 72 days (at one (20) pack a day)...
I imagine that the further we stretch ourselves out from the CORE of the UNG worlds this lag will increase dramatically, but still, the average citizen wont experience spacefold more than one or twice to hundreds of times, but still averaging less than a full lost day of life...
Smoking cigarettes will have the same amount of detrimental affect on your body in just 72 days (at one (20) pack a day)...
I imagine that the further we stretch ourselves out from the CORE of the UNG worlds this lag will increase dramatically, but still, the average citizen wont experience spacefold more than one or twice to hundreds of times, but still averaging less than a full lost day of life...
by araruin » Tue Mar 21, 2006 6:24 pm
I love wikipedia.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Milky_Way_galaxy
The Milky Way galaxy is between 80,000 to 100,000 light years in diameter. According to the stats presented on the UNSDB, it takes approximately six second to fold 1 light year. Therefore, we can extrapolate that a single jump from one end to the other would take between 480,000 to 600,000 second, or 8,000 to 10,000 minutes, or 133 to 167 hours, or 5.5 to 7 days.
If a fold drive can jump to any point in a single jump, then it would take no more than a week to reach any other point in the galaxy. Once again, we find a need to rethink the fold time from Teradai IV to UN controlled space. Since Teradai IV is supposed to be near the core of the galaxy, then it should be no more than 40,000 light years from Earth. This would require a fold time of approximately 3 days.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Milky_Way_galaxy
The Milky Way galaxy is between 80,000 to 100,000 light years in diameter. According to the stats presented on the UNSDB, it takes approximately six second to fold 1 light year. Therefore, we can extrapolate that a single jump from one end to the other would take between 480,000 to 600,000 second, or 8,000 to 10,000 minutes, or 133 to 167 hours, or 5.5 to 7 days.
If a fold drive can jump to any point in a single jump, then it would take no more than a week to reach any other point in the galaxy. Once again, we find a need to rethink the fold time from Teradai IV to UN controlled space. Since Teradai IV is supposed to be near the core of the galaxy, then it should be no more than 40,000 light years from Earth. This would require a fold time of approximately 3 days.
by araruin » Tue Mar 21, 2006 10:00 pm
Thanks for pointing that out, K. I was going from memory, and I remembered wrong. Multiply all of my calculations by 60.
So, 330 to 420 days to cross the galaxy. Then, somewhere around 165 days to reach Earth from Teradai IV.
Thanks to Studiootaking, we can do some other calculations too. Earth to:
Alpha Centauri - 25 minutes
Barnard's Star - 36 minutes
Luyten 726-8 - 51 minutes
Sirius - 51 minutes
Ross 154 - 57 minutes
61 Cygni - 1 hour 9 minutes
Groombridge 34 - 1 hour 9 minutes
Groombridge 1816(Eden) - 1 hour 10 minutes
Gliese 876 - 1 hour 30 minutes
Groombridge 1618 - 1 hour 35 minutes
Groombridge 1830 - 2 hours 59 minutes
Gliese-Jahreiss 436 - 3 hours 21 minutes
Arcturus - 3 hours 39 minutes
Zeta Reticuli - 3 hours 54 minutes
Upsilon Andromedae - 4 hours 24 minutes
Beta Caeli - 9 hours 48 minutes
Backwards extrapolation can be used to determine how far Teradai IV is from UN Space. With Teradai IV being 3 weeks out, or 21 days, or 504 hours, that would give a distance of 5040 light years. If we assume that Teradai IV is somewhere near the center of the galaxy like has been previously stated, then Earth is about 35,000 light years from it's farthest border. It seems ludicrous that we wuld travel so far to settle and leave so much space in between. Maybe we should rethink the position of Teradai IV.
So, 330 to 420 days to cross the galaxy. Then, somewhere around 165 days to reach Earth from Teradai IV.
Thanks to Studiootaking, we can do some other calculations too. Earth to:
Alpha Centauri - 25 minutes
Barnard's Star - 36 minutes
Luyten 726-8 - 51 minutes
Sirius - 51 minutes
Ross 154 - 57 minutes
61 Cygni - 1 hour 9 minutes
Groombridge 34 - 1 hour 9 minutes
Groombridge 1816(Eden) - 1 hour 10 minutes
Gliese 876 - 1 hour 30 minutes
Groombridge 1618 - 1 hour 35 minutes
Groombridge 1830 - 2 hours 59 minutes
Gliese-Jahreiss 436 - 3 hours 21 minutes
Arcturus - 3 hours 39 minutes
Zeta Reticuli - 3 hours 54 minutes
Upsilon Andromedae - 4 hours 24 minutes
Beta Caeli - 9 hours 48 minutes
Backwards extrapolation can be used to determine how far Teradai IV is from UN Space. With Teradai IV being 3 weeks out, or 21 days, or 504 hours, that would give a distance of 5040 light years. If we assume that Teradai IV is somewhere near the center of the galaxy like has been previously stated, then Earth is about 35,000 light years from it's farthest border. It seems ludicrous that we wuld travel so far to settle and leave so much space in between. Maybe we should rethink the position of Teradai IV.
Last edited by araruin on Tue Mar 21, 2006 10:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.
by Koenshaku » Tue Mar 21, 2006 10:09 pm
I was just wondering if somebody had raised the speed limit and forgot to tell me... 
165 days seems like a pretty long trip to me. (Not too long, mind you, just long.) And that's if you can fold from point A to point B in one single go. Some have bandied about the idea that you often have to drop out of fold to get around certain celestial obstacles; that even in Fold travel there's no such thing as a straight line over massive distances. If this were true, it would take even longer to get from Earth to Teradai IV. That would make it very far-flung indeed.
165 days seems like a pretty long trip to me. (Not too long, mind you, just long.) And that's if you can fold from point A to point B in one single go. Some have bandied about the idea that you often have to drop out of fold to get around certain celestial obstacles; that even in Fold travel there's no such thing as a straight line over massive distances. If this were true, it would take even longer to get from Earth to Teradai IV. That would make it very far-flung indeed.
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by studiootaking » Wed Mar 22, 2006 12:36 am
Actually, the only real question about fold drives is, as it is essentially a plot devise, how the GM is going to use them.
Is the GM going to claim that it takes forever for reinforcements to arrive? Will the players be stuck in a kind of limbo for x number of days (that allows for some retraining, additional skills, etc..)
Essentially, a GM could claim that a fold takes place instantly or longer than any of our sources state.
One technical consideration though, is the range of a fold drive per jump. Given that the detachable fold booster has a range of less than 20 light years, it's no big stretch to presume that the capital ships also have a limit - say 10x or 100x the fold booster's range. Maybe the transit time is really a series of short and fast folds, punctuated with lengthy recharge times in real space?
Is the GM going to claim that it takes forever for reinforcements to arrive? Will the players be stuck in a kind of limbo for x number of days (that allows for some retraining, additional skills, etc..)
Essentially, a GM could claim that a fold takes place instantly or longer than any of our sources state.
One technical consideration though, is the range of a fold drive per jump. Given that the detachable fold booster has a range of less than 20 light years, it's no big stretch to presume that the capital ships also have a limit - say 10x or 100x the fold booster's range. Maybe the transit time is really a series of short and fast folds, punctuated with lengthy recharge times in real space?
by MasumiX » Wed Mar 22, 2006 2:37 am
I have bandied about a theory with StudioOtaking that fold jumps are limited by real space physiology. By which, large sun, black holes, spacetime tears and other cross dimiensional anomalies or large gavitational sources produce enough interferrance that lee must be given to them.
Yes its psuedo science, but it does cap "free travle". Of course one could simply fold oneself out side of the galaxy and then fold free will all over the place through the deep so of space...but thats gotta be risky right?
dot dot dot
Yes its psuedo science, but it does cap "free travle". Of course one could simply fold oneself out side of the galaxy and then fold free will all over the place through the deep so of space...but thats gotta be risky right?
dot dot dot
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